> > Excluding things that I don't even know that I don't know ;-) what I know
> > that I don't know (or didn't know a few days ago) is:
>
> Interesting that you mention this in this way - the kids and I just finished
> an audio book over Memorial Day weekend that makes this very point an
> intricate part of the book - that one can't know what one doesn't know until
> one knows it...
Getting philosophical here, but yes, this is fundamental stuff, the four
stages of competence:
1 unconscious incompetence:
I don't even know that I don't know how to do X
2 conscious incompetence
I do know that I don't know how to do X
3 conscious competence
I do know how to X, but I have to think about it
4 unconscious competence
I know how to X and I do it without thinking about it
(Think of e.g. driving a car)
As regards unix syadmin stuff, and Tck/Tk, I'm at working my way up
to stage 2 :-)
---8<--- snippety snip ---8<---
> > d) that using gcc I have to add -lsocket -lnsl flags
>
> This one sounds like a configure script bug - these should be added regardless
> of the compiler chosen. Did you do a make distclean before running the
> configure with gcc chosen as your compiler? I thought somewhere in the
> docs there was a mention that when changing OSes, compilers, etc. one should
> run a make distclean to remove any vestiges of old configuration info.
> If it's not there, then that's another 'bug' of sorts in the docs...
I did a make clean, but not a distclean. I didn't see anything about it in
the docs -- maybe it was buried away somewhere
---8<--- snippety snip ---8<---
> > I don't want to develop a Tcl/Tk application, I want to use a
> > Tcl/Tk application developed by someone else (in this case Juergen) in
> > much the same way as I use Perl modules: just load 'em up and use them --
> > I don't have to recompile Perl for use with mSQL, CGI, GD or any other
> > module. Isn't Tcl/Tk like this?
>
> You are the type of user for whom I have been campaigning for many months
> now - nice to know that you are not a myth <grin>. I have believed that
> for Perl and Tcl both, there are classes of users who don't care about
> the programming details - they just want to use the doggone tools. It's
> not that folk are arguing with me - I am just hoping that I can garner support
> from developers to think about how to make your life easier.
I'd love to have the time to care about the details!
> If you fetched a binary version of perl and pkgadd'd it, and now find that
> you can fetch binary versions of modules you need to run Perl applications,
> then that shows that someone has worked out the details for your specific
> directory structure and platform/OS to allow that to happen.
I installed Perl from sources, but let configure do everything it
suggested and it all just worked .... I was pleasantly surprised!
> The Tcl community (at least the ones with whom I am familar) are not yet
> at that level of organization. However, if you can point me to where you
> fetched that binary version of Tcl, perhaps you and I can discuss with them
> the problems you are seeing and see what is needed to be updated in the
> distribution so that you can do the same sort of things with Tcl that you
> are doing with Perl.
sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk - one of the mirrors listed on the scriptics site
>
> However, if you are compiling Perl, and then compiling the individual Perl
> extensions, then I am afraid that the news is not so bright. Unfortunately,
> Perl is farther along the path with regards to distributing source for building
> that Tcl is. They have a common config language and installation structure
> worked out that in many (but not all) cases makes building a binary from source
> much easier.
That seems to be the case.
> I know these are not the answers which you seek - for that I apologize. On
> the other hand, the issues are complex and the community is not yet as focused
> on them as I myself would prefer...
I know with freeware you gets what you pays for so I've no right to
complain ;-) but as I seem to keep saying, it would be nice if it all
installed smoothly, ./configure looked after my -lsocket options etc and
I'd saved a couple of day's hacking trying to get the stuff installed and
could get on with using the damn' stuff!
cheers,
--
John Stumbles j.d.stumbles@reading.ac.uk
Computer Services, University of Reading http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~suqstmbl
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